How to make health gamification more visible and accessible with Samsung’s Look At Me App

In Series 2 Episode 13 of the Health Points podcast Ben and Pete welcome Wain Choi, the  chief creative officer at Black and White, detailed his professional journey. His work included projects like the Samsung “Look at Me” app for autistic children. The aim was to humanize Samsung’s brand image through innovative uses of technology in healthcare. Wain’s team also created projects like “Be Fearless,” using VR tech to address fears and promote creativity.

This approach not only won awards but also transformed how brands like Samsung were perceived. Wain emphasized the power of gamification in health initiatives to blend creativity with impact. It showcased the potential for games to educate and promote well-being beyond entertainment.

Looking ahead, Wain highlighted the need to shift perceptions around gamification for mental and physical well-being. He referred to campaigns like Metaverse Homeless challenging societal norms. Wain stressed the importance of better communication strategies to integrate health gamification into mainstream medicine.

In summary, Wain Choi’s journey showcased the evolution of gamification in healthcare branding. Through projects like the “Look at Me” app, he transformed brand image perception. Wain’s vision extends to utilizing gamification to promote mental and physical health, underlining innovation in merging technology and wellness realms.

You can listen to this episode below:

Outline:

Chapter 1: Background and Introduction (00:06 – 05:35). Introduction to the podcast “Health Points” focusing on gamification and health.Introduction of the guest, Wain Choi, and his background in creative roles at various firms.Chapter 2: Innovative Projects at Samsung (06:03 – 13:08). Discussion on the “Launching People” platform and the “Look at Me” application. Impact of technology in helping children with disabilities to improve social interaction skills.Chapter 3: Health Gamification Initiatives (15:00 – 19:03). Overview of the “Be Fearless” program and its focus on addressing common fears.Details on the interaction and training process for individuals using the app.Chapter 4: Marketing and Communication Strategies (20:41 – 26:34). Importance of improving visibility and awareness of health gamification services.Insights on budget allocation, team size, and the impact of innovative campaigns on brand perception.Chapter 5: Future of Health Gamification (27:19 – 30:31). Discussion on changing perceptions of gamification for health benefits.Exploring gaps in the industry and the potential role of gamification in mental, physical, and spiritual well-being.Chapter 6: Conclusion and Reflection (30:46 – 31:37). Summary of key points discussed during the podcast episode.

Episode Transcript:

Ben
Hey, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Health Points where we talk about anything and everything, gamification and health. I’m Ben and I have here of me, my co host, Pete.
 
Pete
Hey, everyone.
 
Ben
And joining us today, we have Wain Choi.

Ben
Currently chief creative officer at Black and White, with previous roles as creative director at Zulu Alpha Kilo and a background as chief creative officer for firms included Ogilvy and Chiel Worldwide. It was there where he was involved in the Samsung look at me app to help autistic children. And the touching autism ad for this app won the Khan’s gold line award. Wain, it’s great to have you on the show today.

Wain
Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Pete.

Ben
So it’d be great to start if you just tell us about your background. How did you end up where you are?

Wain
Mean, it could take a while to explain where I come from and all of it, but I’m going to try to do it as briefly as possible. Originally, I was born in Seoul, Korea, and left Korea when I was nine to, you know, my parents thought that it would be a know, freedom and education in Canada. So as a nine year old living in North America, especially in Toronto, at that was. It’s not like now. Everything is better now, but it’s just like no one knows where Korea is. You’re either Chinese or Japanese. Korea really did not exist at that time, but I grew up in Toronto and went to fine art school called Wolfer Laurier. Took four years of fine arts, and after four years of fine arts, I wasn’t quite sure what I would do with that.

Wain
You’re either a starving artist or you’re teaching, and it was very limiting. And I met my wife back then, and she says, you’d be great in advertising. And then I applied for a place called Ontario College of Art at that time, and I got accepted. And then I started doing this and I go, hey, shit, this is great. This is one thing that I can do without feeling like, do I need to be in this session? So I really enjoyed it. And after that, my first job as an intern was Ogilvy, Canada. And that’s how I started and did about ten years in Canada. And then I’ve got a phone call from Densu, Brussels. It’s a Japanese big advertising agency, one of the biggest in the world. And they asked me, hey, would you like to come and help us in Brussels?

Wain
And I didn’t even know where Brussels was. I think most people don’t know where it is. And my wife and I, my kids were little back then. So we packed our bags, went to Brussels, and stayed there for four and a half years and did some stuff, which was wonderful. The biggest client was Toyota F one. And as a Canadian, we knew other car racing, but Formula one wasn’t something that I was familiar with, so I had to get used to it. So it was quite nice. And living in Europe, when you live in Brussels, you can drive to 1 hour to Luxembourg, 1 hour to Netherlands, 1 hour to France, 1 hour to Germany, so you could go everywhere. So our life was fantastic. After about four and a half years, I got another call.

Wain
Would you like to come to Korea and work for Ogilvy Seoul? So I kind of jumped into that because I wanted my kids to know where I come from and give them a sense of, this is what Korea is. This is where I was born. This is where your grandparents are from. So we moved to Korea in 2007, and I worked at a place called Ogilvy, Korea for about three years, and then I got a call from jail. Worldwide jail is part of Samsung at that time, so it’s one of the biggest conglomerates, and if you work for that advertising agencies, it’s like working for New York Yankees versus Toronto blue Jays. So I jumped into that, and I started working on a Samsung global project. And that’s how it all started. And I stayed there in Korea for about 13 plus years.

Wain
And after 17 years living like gypsies in Belgium and Korea, I moved back to Canada in 2020, January 24. And that’s when the pandemic hit. And three years of really uncommon and really different three plus years, that’s sort of my background. And now I started my own agency called black and white, blkw. And black and white means it’s not about color. It’s being either here or there. Nothing in between, because if you’re in between in the gray zone, you don’t stand out. And it’s very uncomfortable if you’re on top of the fence and then you’re on the left side, and the right side sitting on a fence is very uncomfortable. So the philosophy is, hey, be over here or be there. So the black and white is something that I founded beginning of this year. So that’s what I’m working at this point.

Ben
Incredible. Wain. So in that case, how did you get involved at the look at me project for Samsung?

Wain
Yeah, if I just kind of rewind a little bit. Samsung at the time was really well known as technological company, and they felt they were very cold, and there wasn’t that much of humanity as a company, and they’re fighting against Apple and the rest of the brands that are out there and haven’t really excelled from a global perspective. But within Asia, within Korea, Samsung kind of ruled. And our brief to us was, how can we have more humanity as a brand? What could we do? So what we did was we came out with this platform called launching people. So the formula is you as a consumer, plus Samsung being a retail shop or a phone, anything to do with Samsung. So you plus Samsung equals amazing starts. So when you experience Samsung, something awesome will happen.

Wain
And what we said was, through Samsung technology, you can be launched. So the launching people started, and look at me is one of the executions that we started in Seoul, Korea. And we found this lovely story with a 14 year old boy and the mother. That mother, I’m not sure if everyone knows autistic children, but they don’t really look at you directly, even if you are a parent’s mother or father. And she felt like she was so distant from her kid. And we said, we have this application that we will develop and it’ll make your son be a lot closer. It is not a cure, but it is something that can bring you and the sun a little bit closer. So the application was meant to do that. So through technology.

Wain
So we launched that in Korea, and right after that, through the heel of the success of look at me, and we launched another execution, which is called be fearless and what it is know, the VR was being used for more adult entertainment and it was more for gaming only. And we had a little information that San Francisco, in the hospitals, especially the hospitals that were dealing with burnt victims and soldiers who lost their limbs, they were actually using VR to overcome some of the losses of these individuals. We tap into that and we said, okay, why do we not use this VR equipment more than just gaming or adult entertainment? So we found, what are some of the fears that we have?

Wain
So when we did the whole testing around the world, we found the number one fear, which is fear of height, came out number one. So we did this program where you could use a VR and you’re actually being in a virtual world. So fourth floor, fifth floor, but end of the session, you’re able to be standing in a canyon and then be fearless. And it’s not a cure, but it is to make you fearless. And then the number two fear was presenting in front of large crowd and then using VR, having avatar instead of seeing real people. It just got you better and better at presenting in front of people. So we found a way to do that. And then lastly, it’s called power sleep.

Wain
And it was working with University of Vienna in Austria is what are some of the things to overcome the doctors is that they don’t have enough computing power. So we found a way to donate unused processing power through Samsung phone so that the doctors could be using it. So the computing power was something that they needed to use. So when you’re going to sleep, your phone is sleeping anyways. So with this application, you’re actually allowing the institution to use your processing data while you’re asleep. So do good while you’re asleep. So those are three programs that we invented, and hopefully, I’m not sure if they’re still doing that, but we thought this was a great way to make Samsung more human and benefit, rather than just talking about nuts and bolts of the phone itself.

Ben
So it would be great to go a bit deeper into the be fearless program. Before we do that, let’s keep going through the look at me, because look at me is incredible. His own right. So can we talk us through who it was aimed at, how it supported people? That would be amazing. Wain.

Wain
So what we did was there was a famous singer in Korea, and his name escapes me now, but we saw his interview, and he had a child, eleven or twelve year old son. And when I walk through the streets of Seoul or anywhere in Korea, everyone recognizes me. They look at me, but when I go home, my son doesn’t look at me. And we sort of tap into that. So the first person that we approached was him. And I’m not sure if you guys know sort of the personality or characteristics of Koreans, but they don’t like to share their weakness or disability of their family members. So he kind of rejected the idea of being the center of attention with his son because he didn’t want that to be known.

Wain
I mean, it’s pity that he didn’t because by sharing with everyone, you’re becoming stronger. But there was that sort of stigma. And then we approached this woman in Zhongook, he’s 14. So we approached, and then the mother was really the heroine in this whole story. She said, I know I don’t want to reveal the disability of my son, but if you could fix one or two children through this application, I would love to be involved. So the film that you’ve seen, it’s actually the real mother and the real son and the voices the mother. And we ventured into this and we brought in a lot of doctors from University of Seoul, other doctors outside, to using technology. So when you’re taking a photo for autistic child.

Wain
They may not look at you directly in the eyes, but through technology they look directly into the camera lens and looks at you, which was amazing trigger that we found out. So with using the game through the technology, kids are, they’re so focused looking into it. So through looking into the lens and they started to look at the visual of their mom or the father, whoever. They started to focus. And through intensive six to eight weeks of this training, when the technology was out, they were able to physically look at that person into the eyes. It wasn’t 100%, I would say it’s probably eight out of ten. But still it wasn’t a cure. But it really helped this child to look at his mom for the first time in a different lens through technology.

Ben
Amazing. And what impact did you see? I mean, the advertising campaign itself won the line award. What did you see as the impact through the look at me app itself?

Wain
I think the app was there for everyone to use and I think there’s a lot of press release so people were tapping into it and whoever’s using it. But what really changed from a creative perspective and the marketer of Samsung is that people looked at goes, hey, we thought you guys were cold, blue corporate big brand that didn’t have heart. But with this type of story, we brought human truth to the brand. And after two, three years of this program, Samsung won the creative marketer of the year in Cannes. So were able to bring them to the stage. So from a business perspective, from a cold engineer background, a very big, cold, heartless kind of brand into something that was very more human truth.

Wain
So from that perspective, it won a lot of the consumers vote to say, oh, I love what Samsung’s doing because I never thought that Samsung was very emotional or passionate or have some humanity. So it really switched from where they were to where they are after. So it’s through look at me, be fearless and power sleep all these executions around the world global campaign under launching people, were able to change the perception of how people felt about Samsung.

Ben
Remarkable. So in that case, if someone was to engage with the look at me app, how would they engage with it? What would it look like? Give us a bit of a walkthrough of that interaction.

Wain
I’m not sure if they still have that app. It’s been a while because we kicked it off, I believe in 2015. So it’s easily you can download it and through the PR in Korea, people will just go in and download and put it into your phone and it’s a game, so it’s a kid’s game. You’re actually playing game, but actually it’s bringing you closer to being. I don’t want to say the word normal, but being able to be bit more connected to your loved ones.

Ben
Amazing. Well, in that case, Wain, let’s go more into the be fearless service with the VR. Talk us through that. You said it was about challenging some of the biggest fears around height and around being in public or public speaking. Kind of talk us through what the interaction would be like for an individual using it.

Wain
Yeah, so, I mean, after look at me, were thinking, what else can we do to continue this campaign or this platform under launching people? And we said, okay, why don’t we kick this off in Germany? And before doing that, we said VR could better used for other things. It could be education, or it could be health or make you feel better rather than just for pure pleasure of gaming. And we found out, look at the top five fears, and the top two came out, which was fear of height and fear of presenting in front of large crowd. So said, let’s do fear of height. And with this VR, went through extensive execution, 360 virtual filming, and all of it. So you are actually going into this game and you’re putting yourself in an elevator with all glass. So you’re actually moving up.

Wain
As you move up, you’re seeing the bottomless kind of a glass thing. So you’re really dreadful for anyone who is very fearful of height. So I’ll send you guys the link so you guys could have a look after our discussion. But it’s almost putting yourself in a situation with the VR. So they might be sitting in a chair or a stool, just like you or Pete or Ben. And when you look through the VR, you’re actually on top of 200 meters or whatnot, and you’re putting yourself in a place where you would never, ever go. And then there’s level one, level two, level three, and as you get used to and get accustomed to the height, your fear gets less and less. And we did that across Germany, and then in Dubai, they took that as well.

Wain
So that eliminated a lot of the fear. Or you’re actually doing something virtually, and then you’re carrying that over to your real world and be able to have less fear.

Pete
So did that work like levels in a game? You’d go to level one in the lift, looking down, and then go back down to the ground, then go, okay, I’m ready for level two.

Wain
Yeah. So what happens, Pete, is when you’re playing game, level ten is the finish, but you have to drop a lot of coins in the old days to get to that level. So you keep playing, playing till you achieve the excellence of the level ten. So some people go, okay, I’m done. I can’t do this anymore, or I’m going to do it again. I’m going to do it again. So there is a little bit of addiction to the game. Just like any game’s fundamental is that you want to achieve certain goal and it makes you want to strive to finish the game.

Ben
And how long would someone usually interact with it as a service?

Wain
Right now, back then, I think the game was for six to eight weeks of this training, so it wasn’t like thousands of people. So we just kind of focused on 20 or 30 people, anyone who has fear to come in and try this thing and then see if it works or not.

Ben
And again, what year was this? Wain. What year did we do this in?

Wain
This would be 2016 or 17.

Ben
Okay. Yeah. I mean, if you look at now that the use of AR and VR within health, immutation and therapeutics, it’s huge. It’s gigantic. I mean, treading that new pioneering path. What did you learn from, what did you use to kind of think about how the game mechanics or principles could be delivered through VR?

Wain
I think from our perspective, it’s more of a pilot project that kicked off in Germany. But I think any brand that takes it seriously, you could really go beyond. I think it’s limitless of what you can do with VR or gamification, because I think any brands that are out there, they should really get into it even more, because it’s very limitless of what a technology could do. It’s not just about using it for something that’s just very basic. But I think you can go beyond with health and fitness more into that. Because I go into a hospital, I don’t think there’s any hospitals actually using it on day to day basis.

Wain
Maybe some do, but I think it should be more common how the VR system could be used even more on a day to the patients, and it could definitely beneficial and limitless of what we can do.

Ben
So on that point then, Wain, some of your real skill sets and experience over your career has been around communication of services. What needs to happen to improve the visibility and awareness of these health gamification services, because there’s loads of great stuff out there. Pete and I have had the opportunity to speak with so many amazing designers, academics, entrepreneurs, but health gamification still sits under the surface of more traditional conventional medicine and therapeutics. What needs to happen to increase that noise, to increase that visibility?

Wain
I think we need to change the perception of what gaming is, even through the parents. Especially the parents and the older generation. Because when you talk about gaming, it’s still some 1214 or 15 year old kids in the basement glued to their couch and just eating chips or soda pops and just playing games. It isn’t like that anymore. In reality, esports, e gaming, these guys are professional athletes as well now, right? So in a lot of ways. So for me, it’s really changing the perception of that stigma that gaming is no longer the way it’s presented in Simpsons. If you see Simpsons or how they’re portrayed in any type of shows, I think it needs to be taken more seriously how the gaming could actually help your health and actually help your mental health and physical health. And there isn’t enough communication.

Wain
I believe there’s not enough. And when we did it with Samsung, I think they did it to change the perception of their brand. But to be honest, they should have taken it more seriously and invested a lot more time and money and effort to really pursue that. Rather than just talking about, oh, we changed the color, we have a better camera, and we have a larger screen, we have this and that. I think there are a lot of things that they should be more responsible to do this, whether you’re Apple or whether you’re Google or Samsung. I think they should really tap into it and get even better. I mean, we started that in 2015, and it’s almost eight or ten years ago. So by now, if everyone have invested long more, I think it would be fantastic, to be honest.

Wain
So it’s really the communication that hasn’t been communicated to all of the professionals or disciplines.

Pete
There’s something interesting there about the investment in it. From the brand perspective, you’re a rare interviewee for us because you’re not coming from the health background or the academic background, where there’s a lot more issue in, say, raising funds, getting a prototype put together. So I’m actually fascinated to know what sort of budget did you get to work with to create these gamification examples? The size of the team, the amount of people involved, monetary figures if you’ve got them, that sort of thing. Because I think it’s going to be interesting.

Wain
Yeah. From a resource perspective, I held a small team, I would say maybe two teams, so it would be four from a creative resource. And we kept the team really tight and the budget that we had was at the time, I think it was 1 million us to get everything done from developing the application and connecting with all of the different disciplines and being able to execute it to the point. So I would say around 1 million, but don’t quote me on that because it could be a little less or it could be a little more, but that’s sort of the budget at that time.

Wain
But I think if you get the right type of people who want to put in the right time to develop something like this, I know that I can get lot of resources sort of, hey, I want to do that. I want to get involved. It’s not always about the money that you get paid when you do something like this. I mean, I’ve been in advertising industry for 32 years and that’s probably the most meaningful work I’ve been involved. Just because it does more than just selling the product or changing perceptions, this actually could help and it could be a lot more meaningful than just moving few boxes off the shelves.

Pete
I mean, that’s a really great point. To be honest, it sounds like a pretty good budget for a bit of gamification I’m interested in. That is compared to how you might put that to a different creative purpose. From a marketing perspective, you’re spending a million dollars to create a health gamification marketing. What sort of impact does that have apart from making you feel good for working on something good bang for its buck? In terms of marketing impact, I think.

Wain
From a consumer’s perspective, I think it changes how you think about that brand or that company when you do something like this. Because everyone knows that it’s all about making money and making profit ROI, but when you do something like this, I think it goes beyond and it gets deeper into not just likability or be in love with that product, I think it just says, wow, these guys are thinking beyond everyday usage. They’re going beyond and we are living longer. So how does technology or anything that could help us to live longer, but live longer comfortably or live longer and feel better? Because say we live till hundred pete, but if you’re dragging your body all over the place, is that really living? Right?

Wain
So a lot of the things that I came across while I was working on this was at that time, 2016 was exoskeleton and then this person was paralyzed from neck down and through exoskeleton and it was really just a thin layer of underwear. And that person was able to move. And I think it came out of Japan at that time. And this person was actually moving. And I’m not sure how much that has been developed, but just imagine being able to have someone whose kid who’s like overweight or has less mobility, and then the technology is giving you to live the life of you really want in your mind. So I think there’s a lot that we can do, but I’m not sure how much that we are really tapping into it. But I said the word limitless.

Wain
We could be doing a lot more in my mind.

Ben
So in that case, what do you think the future can look like? Where do you think there are gaps which your experiences in working with some of the largest technology company on the planet? Where are those gaps? Where is the future role of health gamification?

Wain
I think, like I said before, to change that perception of gamification is that really change? The word game just seems fun and frivolous in most people’s mind, but I think the game could help your life, help your mental strength or physical health, or spiritually. And I think that could be the future of gaming. Gaming is more than just like, hey, I achieved this level, or I got this many points, I got to see this. I think it needs to go beyond that. And I think there are a lot of games that are actually educational now, and there are a lot of things that are very health wise. So I think moving more into that area is where the future of the gaming should be.

Wain
And it should be more educational, it should be more health benefit, and it should actually help you with the day to day stress or anxiety or things that we’ve done in the past. Is that bringing loved ones together or being fearless and being able to do things that are a lot more than just what you see in the game industry in perception wise? And I think there are a lot of things, but I think we just need to tell people that, and people are not aware of that.

Ben
Are there any examples of products or services in gamification that you’ve seen recently that you think are doing that really well?

Wain
Yeah, recently I was judging one show, it’s a New York award show that happened in Puerto Rico. And I judged a category called Branded Entertainment. And the work was out of Paris, France, and it was called metaverse homeless. I think if you look at YouTube, you can probably find it is that we’re creating a metaverse, right? Like you can live in 5000 with all this. We’re creating all this. All that money and time is into that. And then in that game, the homeless person comes in and says, you guys are spending all this time and money and effort into it. And I live in a real world that it’s not even 1% of this good.

Wain
So I think that’s the last work that I thought was really interesting, is that a lot of the young kids are living in this metaverse and then you see a homeless popping in and tells you that the world that person is living. And I thought that was very powerful.

Ben
Amazing. Gwain, it’s been incredible to have you on the show today to look at gamification from a very different perspective, particularly the communication and the role of branding and campaigns to raise awareness and raise engagement with individuals all around the world. To talking through taking digital products for entertainment and transitioning them to therapeutic purposes. And what needs to happen to move cold engineering brands into warm, emotive brands that people can connect with your campaign that was so successful, it won one of the most prestigious awards in the industry as well. And the wider need to better communicate health gamification at a greater scale to promote the role of health gamification and then transition it towards mainstream medicine and therapeutics rather than sitting on the fringes. Wain, it’s been great to have you on the show today.

Wain
Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Pete. And thank you for inviting me for awesome discussion. I know we’re all in the three different time zones. And Ben, you’re a little bit early. Pete, you’re in the middle of the day. I’m just starting out, so thank you for reaching out. Thanks.

Pete
Wain, it’s been really interesting. 

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